dog spaying

[jennim]

bella is a 5 month old collie/lab/springer cross & very hypo. recently we have had a few problems with her when we go out. she is locked in the kitchen by a dog gate. just recently she has started jumping over the gate. she then proceeds to chew most things that she can find. this is becoming a big issue as i have spent a fortune buying gates, calming tablets, toys, etc.

next week we are getting her spayed. will this calm her down at all & maybe stop her from escaping & chewing everything in sight?? i understand that she wont stop chewing things completely as she is still very young but im just wondering if there is a light at the end of the tunnel??

im not sure if i am in the right forum or not.

all views are more than welcome

[Suzette]

First of all, and most important, spaying will solve none of your issues and will most likely introduce a whole host of new ones. There are many, many good reasons to wait to spay when possible. Unfortunately, I'm about to head out the door and don't have time to write a lengthy post. But I assure you, some good, knowledgeable folks will be along very shortly to help you sort this all out.

[jacksdad]

spaying will address unwanted/unplanned puppies. It does not always have the desired effect on behavior that it's billed to have.

It is important to remember that intact dogs (dogs neither spayed or neutered) are in their natural state and like any other mammal go through various emotional and physical developmental stages on their way to being an adult. Many of those phases/cycles and hormones involved in the maturing process are controlled by the sex organs. this is all natural, normal the way things are supposed to be.

Spay/neuter is about unwanted and unplanned puppies, nothing more. This in it's self is a huge and valid reason to spay/neuter our dogs, but don't expect it to change behavior for the better.

you have a young, energetic dog. That energy needs outlets, training and patience. That is how you will achieve the behavior your want. Not spaying her.

just some bullet points to keep in mind

1. spay and neuter is not a "cure" to behavior "issues" for a normal and healthy dog (which based on what you share, is what you have)
2. in the ideal, dogs should be allowed to reach maturity before this step is taken
3. #2 must be balanced with preventing unwanted/unplanned litters, which is in my mind the only valid reason in most cases for spay/neutering
4. being a responsible dog owner means preventing unwanted/unplanned litters. for most people this means eventually spay/neutering of their dogs
5. you have to make the final decision based on what is best for you and your dog. I can only provide food for thought.

[jennim]

thanks for the comments. i have spoken to the vet & she assured me that bella is ready to be spayed. it was something that i heard that it should calm her down. i guess it was partly wishful thinking my main reason to get her spayed is to stop an unwanted pregnancy & also i have a friend whose dog had phantom pregnancies. i dont want bella to have any of them. any ideas how long it will be before she calms down? in the meantime i have bought a bigger gate so hopefully this will help to solve my problem with her jumping over the gate!

[ClareMarsh]

Hi there, please take a look at this thread before you go ahead with spaying her at such a young age, hopefully those with b ches who have thought about this more than I will also add their thoughts. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10933

My first vet said that I should neuter Ted at 6 months but thankfully I did some research on here and have taken the decision to wait until he's fully mature and then decide what to do. I actually ended up seeing the other vet in the practice last time and when I explained to him why I am waiting to neuter he was fully supportive and thought I was being very sensible, which begs the question why is his colleague recommending neutering.

[jacksdad]

...it was something that i heard that it should calm her down....

Can you get that in writing with a money back guarantee?

There is a lot of myths out there about what spaying/neutering will or won't do. The one and only thing you can be sure it will do is prevent unwanted puppies, again a pretty darn good reason to take this step. For everything else, question, question, question, do your research, ask some more questions and realize you can always spay/neuter tomorrow, but once done it's done.

[Erica]

If I could go back in time, we would not have spayed Opal before she was mature. Now she's mentally a puppy - forever - and already I can see the difference between Marble (8-9 months old, entire) and Opal (spayed ~6 months), behavior-wise...Marble is showing more maturity. I would highly, strongly suggest that you wait to spay, if at ALL possible. I personally will not ever neuter my animals before they're mature again, and deeply wish I'd found this forum and this advice before we got Opal.

Marble will be entire until she's at least 3 and fully grown, physically and mentally.

[runlikethewind]

I don't think spaying will calm her down. There is just no correlation - in fact anecdotal evidence in the contrary. Try to think logically about it. How could there possibly be a correlation. If she were mine, I would wait for her first season or 2nd season, AFTER she has matured and calmed down and then maybe assess this again.

Can you give us a detailed run down of her daily routine inc what she has to eat and what training and fun stuff/walks she has each day. Excitable behaviour can be due to many things. Chewing can be due to stress as well - that is why we could do with more info.

[Suzette]

Jennim, I had similar thoughts before I found this forum and educated myself on the importance of waiting to spay. I hope you'll take the time to read some of the threads we have here on spaying and also the link that Claire provided in her post above will be of particular interest to you since you mention phantom pregnancies. Please take the time to read through it.

My 8 month old Corgi just finished her first heat. It was no problem at all for her or for me. She did drip a little, but she mainly kept herself very clean. I simply put some old towels on the sofa to keep it clean. We still walked her, we just made sure to always have her on lead while she was in heat - no problem! We still have false pregnancy to go through, but thanks to Nettle's article on that subject (again, the one that Claire provided for you), I am not at all concerned, knowing it is natural and normal. She will not "suffer", she will simply go through a process for a brief amount of time.

And something else worth mentioning, and I honestly don't know if this is typical, but one thing I did notice with my dog is that she became noticeably calmer and more mature in her demeanor during her heat and I find now that it's over, she has remained that way. Yes, she's still active, playful and full of energy, but there is definitely a maturity to her that wasn't there pre-heat.

Knowledge is power and there is a lot to learn here. (From this forum alone I have learned so much and am still learning every day!)

[jennim]

thanks for all of your comments. i have just voiced all of my concerns to my vet. she has assured me that there is nothing to worry about. she said that she recommends getting her done before the first season as if left there can be problems with the mamory gland. to be honest im very unsure of what to do now.

[Suzette]

Jennim, my vet (and every other vet I've ever had before her) gave me that same speech. My new vet is a lovely woman and a wonderful doctor who actually took the time to ask me why I felt it best to wait. No other vet I've seen has ever done that. It told me a lot about her - all good! I don't know in the end if it changed her personal opinion on the timing of spaying, but I'm just happy she was willing to listen to me and look at this subject from a different point of view.

Don't let anyone, even your vet, rush you into this decision. Once done, it cannot be undone. Educate yourself thoroughly and then make the decision YOU believe is best for your dog.

[jacksdad]

Here are a couple good resources that are trying to get people thinking clearer about spaying and neutering.

http://www.homeopathicvet.co.uk/pdf%20f ... 0links.pdf
http://www.doglistener.co.uk/medical/neuter.shtml

Our goal is NOT to talk you out of it, but to help you make an informed decision with the least amount of fear tactics involved.

[Ari_RR]

Keep in mind - this is a one way street, no return.
No harm in delaying until you give this a bit more thought, get a bit more information...
But once done, there is no way to undo... ( Even if the procedure came with a money back guarantee )

Our vet actually suggested waiting until Ari matures, and rush only if there are either medical abnormalities, or perhaps uncontrollable lady dogs in heat around..

[elisa]

I have a collie/springer cross now 1 year and four months and she was spayed before christmas. She had her first heat a couple of months before that. At least my vet recommended waiting until after the first heat and this is apparently the recommendation by all vets in Finland. Now I decided to go with spaying mostly for convenience reasons and would have waited until after her second heat but the timing after the first seemed better in the end. Spaying is major surgery for females so beware of that. Recovery takes time and you have to make sure she won't lick the scar and at least I took two days off work in the beginning and that was really necessary in my opinion.

As for behavioral changes, I've not noticed much anything. She is still super energetic and the same "loon" she has always been. A lot calmer than a year ago, but that only has to do with getting older and smarter. If anything then she has somehow become more pushy. I can't much explain it, but it may have something to do with her appetite becoming better. She was really picky and really did not eat much, but now she will nicely eat her kibble twice a day (at least most of the time).

I would say wait until after at least her first heat. We did experience a fake pregnancy but that was just a few nights of whining.

And as for the chewing and being super energetic - just do more walking and training and giving things she can chew.

I've ended up making toys out of old jeans just by tying the legs up to look like bones and also old socks and shirts. Ansa really likes untying the knots and then I retie them and it's like a new toy all over. Of course if she eats what she destroys then real bones and rawhides and such are better. (And well Ansa has almost never chewed anything that wasn't given to her beforehand - one bike light that was accidentally on the floor and made of rubber, like a kong..., and a used sock, after we began with the sock toys... So now we put used socks in the laundry. )

[bendog]

And something else worth mentioning, and I honestly don't know if this is typical, but one thing I did notice with my dog is that she became noticeably calmer and more mature in her demeanor during her heat and I find now that it's over, she has remained that way. Yes, she's still active, playful and full of energy, but there is definitely a maturity to her that wasn't there pre-heat.

I've noticed this with our pup too.

I had my boy dog neutered at 4 years old. It was really bad timing and increased a lot of his fear issues. I would have prefered not to have had him castrated, but we were moving into a house with an unneutered girl dog, and couldn't rely on others not to let them get near each other when the girl was in season.

I have watched both spaying and castration operations and have to say that although castration is quite simple (it still involves going under anaesthetic so can still be risky), the ***** spay is a quite invasive and major procedure and so although for convienance I'd like to get the girls spayed, I personally can't justify putting them through surgery purely for my own benefit.